Sonus faber Owners & Discussion Thread

[Guest alhsen]

HI guys

anyone have any opinion of the older version of Sonus Faber concerto?

personally think the bottom end is a bit loose.

any comments?

any advice on improving/tweaking SF concerto?

regards

 

pairing it with PLinius 8150i and Audio Note DAc and Transport

[ongus]

You want a tight bottom, go get Dynaudio. Scanspeak woofers will not give you tight bass and demand to be driven by toob amps.

[Luv4nature]

The original concerto, if set up appropriately, is a very warm and musical sounding pair of spks. Here are some tricks you may wanna try to improve the bass:

 

-place it well away from side and rear wall, at least 2ft, the more the better

-try using solid core spk cable

-toe-in

-use some damping material on the ground in front of the spks

-if you use a sub woofer, try to reverse the phase, this would help to cancel some of the upper bass while still supplementing the lower bass freq.

-partially stuff the bass port (eg, use some loose cushion stuffing material.) However, do not totally block the port with dense material, not even using foam/sponge.

-use original SF stand, it is a few inches higher than most std 24" stand, this actually separates the woofer further from the floor. Also, sand filling the stand would help to control the bass.

 

Hope this helps :P

[Apogee_diva]

Hi there,

I'm thinking about buying a pair of Extrema's. They used to be Sonus Faber's flagship speakers in the 90's being discontinued when the Guarneri Homage were released. The Extrema's having no capacitors in their crossover, tend to require some hefty amplification (Krell, Levinson & Classe monoblocks, though some people successfully partnered them with tubes).

I've heard the Guarneri's but not Extrema's. I like the Guarneri's musicality, though they're rather bass shy. I'm a big planar fan (my main speakers are the Apogee Diva's) and plan to put the Extrema's in the living, where their size is more manageable than the big planars.

Many thanks.

PS: If you're planning to sell yours, please drop me a note too !

[Santa1503559644]

Hi there,

I'm thinking about buying a pair of Extrema's. They used to be Sonus Faber's flagship speakers in the 90's being discontinued when the Guarneri Homage were released. The Extrema's having no capacitors in their crossover, tend to require some hefty amplification (Krell, Levinson & Classe monoblocks, though some people successfully partnered them with tubes).

I've heard the Guarneri's but not Extrema's. I like the Guarneri's musicality, though they're rather bass shy. I'm a big planar fan (my main speakers are the Apogee Diva's) and plan to put the Extrema's in the living, where their size is more manageable than the big planars.

Many thanks.

PS: If you're planning to sell yours, please drop me a note too !

I'm afraid I can't say I've got any to sell!

You certainly like the good stuff, I must say.

The prices should be a lot more realistic now, however.

(Those extremas certainly get mixed reactions in the looks dept, but I guess so do your divas! )

BTW: Given your audio choices, what are you using for the video? Cine9, perhaps?

[ozcal]

Hi there,

I'm thinking about buying a pair of Extrema's. They used to be Sonus Faber's flagship speakers in the 90's being discontinued when the Guarneri Homage were released. The Extrema's having no capacitors in their crossover, tend to require some hefty amplification (Krell, Levinson & Classe monoblocks, though some people successfully partnered them with tubes).

I've heard the Guarneri's but not Extrema's. I like the Guarneri's musicality, though they're rather bass shy. I'm a big planar fan (my main speakers are the Apogee Diva's) and plan to put the Extrema's in the living, where their size is more manageable than the big planars.

Many thanks.

PS: If you're planning to sell yours, please drop me a note too !

I sold SF both in the u.k and here and the Extremas are a tremendous speaker .As you say they require well designed amplification but also being very transparent they require all of the ancillaries to be of a comensurate standard.You will also need to get a descent set of stands and they require a lot of space round about them to work properely, maybe not as bad as panel speakers but not far off in their sighting requirements if they are to work at their best.

Gordon

[betty boop]

I'm afraid I can't say I've got any to sell!

You certainly like the good stuff, I must say.

The prices should be a lot more realistic now, however.

(Those extremas certainly get mixed reactions in the looks dept, but I guess so do your divas! )

BTW: Given your audio choices, what are you using for the video? Cine9, perhaps?

hehe sayign the same here.

good speakers from the 90s seem to have kept their age well, youd expect a pretty good performance from somethign like that I reckon.

if they needed needed some grunty quality amps back then of the likes you mention, then they still would. You can often find some quality amps from that era on the likes of ebay, and anythign more might cost you more than the speakers !

Best suggest you have a good demo of them and inspect condition carefully, checkign out speaker/driver surounds and their condition. If theyre at a store check out with soem likely amp combinations so can get an idea of what they sound good with.

[Apogee_diva]

I'm afraid I can't say I've got any to sell!

You certainly like the good stuff, I must say.

The prices should be a lot more realistic now, however.

(Those extremas certainly get mixed reactions in the looks dept, but I guess so do your divas! )

BTW: Given your audio choices, what are you using for the video? Cine9, perhaps?

No, I'm only using a Sanyo Z4 (scaled on a Silicon Optix AnyPlace and projected on a Stewart Firehawk). I considered Runco for a while, but at the speed this technology is changing, I chose to err on the prudent side. I only recently got into the video side - it's more family friendly compared to (selfish) stereo.

I just relocated from the States and got my gear from there. I'm absolutely baffled with the AU prices. Often AU prices on "used" gear cost more than what I can get it new in the US. No wonder I also brought along a couple of 5KVA stepdown transformers. It helps with most gears, except on some Krell equipment which detects the frequency, hence won't work even with a stepdown transformer.

Getting back to the Extrema's, for speakers of which only 1000 were made in total, Australia seems to have quite a few of them !

[ozcal]

No, I'm only using a Sanyo Z4 (scaled on a Silicon Optix AnyPlace and projected on a Stewart Firehawk). I considered Runco for a while, but at the speed this technology is changing, I chose to err on the prudent side. I only recently got into the video side - it's more family friendly compared to (selfish) stereo.

I just relocated from the States and got my gear from there. I'm absolutely baffled with the AU prices. Often AU prices on "used" gear cost more than what I can gear it new for in the US. No wonder I also brought along a couple of 5KVA stepdown transformers. It helps with most gears, except on some Krell equipment which detects the frequency, hence won't work even with a stepdown transformer.

Getting back to the Extrema's, for speakers of which only 1000 were made in total, Australia seems to have quite a few of them !

Ye ,I used to work for the importers ,they probably got a good deal due to volume and certainly passed this on.

There were a number of pairs sold by others that were grey imported so just be careful of heritage.

Gordon

[Dlite1503559993]

Ye ,I used to work for the importers ,they probably got a good deal due to volume and certainly passed this on.

There were a number of pairs sold by others that were grey imported so just be careful of heritage.

Gordon

I generally like the SF stuff, I nearly bought a pait of Extrema's this year. A pair went on ebay for about A$5500 sold through Audio Connection. Not sure how they compare with the best of today, probably very good, but many said they were the best speaker ever when released. Sure you don't want a pair of Zu Druids . :-).

[Apogee_diva]

Ye ,I used to work for the importers ,they probably got a good deal due to volume and certainly passed this on.

There were a number of pairs sold by others that were grey imported so just be careful of heritage.

Gordon

Gordon:

Any idea of how many pairs there are in AU ? I saw the ones at Audio Connections (they weren't connected, so I couldn't audition). They didn't have the original 6 pillar column stands, but a thinner "T" shape one instead. It didn't sell in the shop so they sold on ebay. If I remember correctly, the buyer was not local.

Do you know whether the drivers (Esotar T330 and Skaaning SK170-308) are standard off the shelf drivers? I know the tweeters on the Guarneri Homage are heavily modified, but not sure about the Extrema's. How much did they retail for in AU and what would be a good bargain price for them here ?

I have various Apogee's and hence don't think will have a problem matching a power amp with them (Krell KSA-200S, Classe M-1000 mono's, Van Den Hul HBQ-475 mono's, Rowlands 201). With the Apogee's, I found that they're more synergistic with 90's gear. I tried the Krell FPB series - they're faster, leaner and dry, which didn't make a very good match with the Apogee's.

Even with the Rowlands, I'm still getting used to them - their new ICEpower based amplifers, while really size and family friendly, is quite a departure from the classic sweet, tubey Rowland sound. When I compare their physical size and power rating against the other monsters lying around, I can't help thinking that the days of those monster amplifiers are counted. Jeff Rowland himself said to me "it's time to move to the 21st century". He actually recommended getting the 201's over his previous flagship Model 9's (220 kgs vs. 12 kgs! ) for the Diva's.

[ozcal]

Gordon:

Any idea of how many pairs there are in AU ? I saw the ones at Audio Connections (they weren't connected, so I couldn't audition). They didn't have the original 6 pillar column stands, but a thinner "T" shape one instead. It didn't sell in the shop so they sold on ebay. If I remember correctly, the buyer was not local.

Do you know whether the drivers (Esotar T330 and Skaaning SK170-308) are standard off the shelf drivers? I know the tweeters on the Guarneri Homage are heavily modified, but not sure about the Extrema's. How much did they retail for in AU and what would be a good bargain price for them here ?

I have various Apogee's and hence don't think will have a problem matching a power amp with them (Krell KSA-200S, Classe M-1000 mono's, Van Den Hul HBQ-475 mono's, Rowlands 201). With the Apogee's, I found that they're more synergistic with 90's gear. I tried the Krell FPB series - they're faster, leaner and dry, which didn't make a very good match with the Apogee's.

Even with the Rowlands, I'm still getting used to them - their new ICEpower based amplifers, while really size and family friendly, is quite a departure from the classic sweet, tubey Rowland sound. When I compare their physical size and power rating against the other monsters lying around, I can't help thinking that the days of those monster amplifiers are counted. Jeff Rowland himself said to me "it's time to move to the 21st century". He actually recommended getting the 201's over his previous flagship Model 9's (220 kgs vs. 12 kgs! ) for the Diva's.

No .sorry , no idea of actual; numbers sold.With regard to this and other questions re the Extremas I suggest you contact: mail@internationaldynamics.com.au ,as they are the local importers.More technical questions would probably be better adreesed by SF themselves .

Gordon

[Sam Lee]

What an interesting thread. Finally someone in this forum discuss about audiophile stuff.

I believed the high end industry in the future will only be a niche market, given most of the younger generation are very happy with the low end mp3 and ipod sound.

I believed the Extrema is an awesome speaker, the best set up that I have heard was driven by a Krell Reference Standard mono which was a monster of its sizes and power, the circuit is a true balanced even the power supply has got 2 transformer, one for + phase and one for -ve.

With this setup, the extrema sings and the dynamics is unbeliebale and you won't believe the speaker at this size would be able to deliver a very realistic sound level without any strain.

I am still keeping my Apogee somewhere and they are good speaker except the bass is slightly slower than the Cone driver speaker due to the limitation of the ribbon. If yr amp can manage the diva, the Extrema should have no problem at all.

The 6 pillar stand is a must, before the custom made pillar stand was made, sound anchor used to have a stand specifically made for this speaker, that was in the early 90s.

In my humble opinion, buy this pair if u have the money to spend on the rest of the gear. And I believed u will be happy to live with this speaker for at least 10 years.

[Keith_W]

I have always been a little bit suspicious about Sonus Faber gear. My first exposure to SF was with the Extrema, paired to Mark Levinson monoblocks at 200W pure class A per channel. I wondered why such a small speaker needs so much juice to make it sing? Most bookshelf speakers around that size, even large ones, are perfectly happy with 50W class A. Or even less. ProAc bookshelf speakers of the 90's were perfectly happy with even 15W.

Those monster power amps were designed to power huge American speakers with multiple drivers in a d'Appolito array, or inefficient designs such as Magnepans. What is it about the relatively small Extrema that makes them so difficult to drive?

In any case, very good amplification at high power is expensive. At 200W you would be struggling to find anything that is Class A and affordable. More likely you'll find some Class A/B amp that spends most of its time in Class B when driving the Extrema's. And if this speaker is as "transparent" as people say it is, then it would be revealing of a substandard Class A/B amp. I don't know how it would perform with any other amp - like I said, I only heard them with the Mark Levinson's.

Oh, and FWIW ... in the above system the Extrema's sounded amazing.

[Apogee_diva]

I am still keeping my Apogee somewhere and they are good speaker except the bass is slightly slower than the Cone driver speaker due to the limitation of the ribbon. If yr amp can manage the diva, the Extrema should have no problem at all.

I'm curious - Which Apogee do you have ? Are they the Full Range or Scintilla by any chance ?

[Sam Lee]

I had 3 planar speakers. Apogee, one is Duetta and Stage with stand. Martin Logan- SL3

I sold the Duetta due to its size, I am keeping my stage.

I used to have few pair of speakers placed side by side and run each one of them with different comb of pre-power amp for fun, well that was before I got married.

ML SL-3 is quiet a good speaker given the price and ease to drive, I prefer to Sl3 to be used for Classical.

For Rock and Fusion stuff, cannot beat the Apogee.

I have to say if you have a proper setup on the Diva, I would say you need to spend over $20K to find a better speaker, but that is my opinion.

Interesting to your comment about power rating.

I have to say, you cannot compare a Proac Tablette with SF or other speaker.

Those speakers are Bookshelves. has got limited place and no way it is closed to a full range performance.

Having said that, if you ever power up a pair of Tablette with a Krell amp, you will be quiet amazed what the little Tablette can do.

We should start another thread to discuss about Class A and high/low power performance. It should be a new topic to disucss about Power amp design.

[Apogee_diva]

We should start another thread to discuss about Class A and high/low power performance. It should be a new topic to disucss about Power amp design.

Sure - with the various Apogees, I tried many amps and still have the Krell, Classe, VdH and Rowland. I didn't get the Levinson. To my ears, the older series were musical, but a bit dark sounding. The new ones are technically perfect, but the music is gone...

[Sam Lee]

Did u have a chance listen to the new Goldmund series? If not, go to Audio connection.

[ronslam]

Strange to come across this thread.

I have owned Extremas with the 6 pillar stands - the most disappointing unsatisfying speakers I have ever owned.

Everyone out there seems to "know" that the problems are with the equipment driving them. I went to plenty of expense to get a big Plinius power amp to make them sound listenable. Extremas look impressive and have a reputation that I would question the basis of. I have never been so happy to get rid of speakers. I went back to Quad ESL-63s which I had been using previously, then on to a couple of other equally superior speakers. Amongst them were Merlin VSMs which have a lot in common with Extremas, but actually sound good. The Merlin designer is pretty scathing about the SF design.

That's my opinion, anyway. I still like the way they look, but wouldn't want to listen to them.

[Keith_W]

ronslam, welcome to DTVForum

I would have to agree with your sentiments about Sonus Faber gear. Recently when I was shopping for speakers I came across the Sonus Faber Cremona's. My opinion of those speakers is in this thread.

I would be interested in what you thought of SF sound? And do you have a link to what the Merlin designer said about SF design?

[Apogee_diva]

Strange to come across this thread.

I have owned Extremas with the 6 pillar stands - the most disappointing unsatisfying speakers I have ever owned.

Everyone out there seems to "know" that the problems are with the equipment driving them. I went to plenty of expense to get a big Plinius power amp to make them sound listenable. Extremas look impressive and have a reputation that I would question the basis of. I have never been so happy to get rid of speakers. I went back to Quad ESL-63s which I had been using previously, then on to a couple of other equally superior speakers. Amongst them were Merlin VSMs which have a lot in common with Extremas, but actually sound good. The Merlin designer is pretty scathing about the SF design.

That's my opinion, anyway. I still like the way they look, but wouldn't want to listen to them.

Ronslam,

I'm curious how much you sold the Extrema's for... I haven't heard them, but did hear the Guarneri Hommage, which according to Martin Colloms, is quite close to the ESL-63. I've heard both in different systems and think that the ESL-63 is more transparent and quite magical in the mids & treble. The bass on both speakers seem to be the weak point though. I thought that the Extremas would give a Guarneri-type sound, without the shortcoming in the bass. Its unusual crossover (no caps) could also make matching to a suitable amp a bit tricky.

[ronslam]

The comments about the Extremas v. Merlins were made in correspondence between myself and Bobby P (of Merlin). He seems happy to discuss the merits of his speakers with anyone. I might be able to dig out some old emails to see exactly what he said.

I never came across Guarneris, but the descriptions of them were appealing. A guy using the name of hyperion used to rave about them in forums. I have owned Minima Amators (OK, but I prefer some ProAc's), and heard quite a bit of Electa Amators, which seemed pretty good at the time.

I bought the Extremas (with stands) from Audio Connection for $7500, if I remember correctly, and got the same amount back selling privately.

I lived with the ESL63's for over 10 years, and feel strongly the bass issue with them is completely misrepresented. We are so unused to clean, undistorted bass that something seems to be missing, but at limited volumes they can sound terrific (and much warmer than Extremas). Admittedly,I did, in the end use them with a subwoofer.

[kaptnkolgate]

Hi there,

I'm thinking about buying a pair of Extrema's. They used to be Sonus Faber's flagship speakers in the 90's being discontinued when the Guarneri Homage were released. The Extrema's having no capacitors in their crossover, tend to require some hefty amplification (Krell, Levinson & Classe monoblocks, though some people successfully partnered them with tubes).

I've heard the Guarneri's but not Extrema's. I like the Guarneri's musicality, though they're rather bass shy. I'm a big planar fan (my main speakers are the Apogee Diva's) and plan to put the Extrema's in the living, where their size is more manageable than the big planars.

Many thanks.

PS: If you're planning to sell yours, please drop me a note too !

Hi There!

Have you bought your extremas yet? I have a pair with the genuine stands in near mint condition that I am reluctantly parting with. They have no marks other than a small run in one of the speaker grilles and were bought from a reputable dealer (Simply Hifi.)

If you are interested, PM me and I can email you some photos.

Regards

Chris

[Apogee_diva]

Chris,

I keep getting an error message while trying to email or send you a PM directly, so I'm replying on the forum.

I haven't bought the Extrema's yet so the stands would be of no use right now. I'll keep you posted if I do get the speakers. I'd definitely want to audition before buying the Extrema's. While I won't have any trouble powering them, I'm a bit concerned on the quality of its treble. I'm used to Apogees with > 40" ribbons tweeters. I'm not sure how the Esotar compares.

Thanks.

Hi There!

Have you bought your extremas yet? I have a pair with the genuine stands in near mint condition that I am reluctantly parting with. They have no marks other than a small run in one of the speaker grilles and were bought from a reputable dealer (Simply Hifi.)

If you are interested, PM me and I can email you some photos.

Regards

Chris

[wheelz]

Hi There!

Have you bought your extremas yet? I have a pair with the genuine stands in near mint condition that I am reluctantly parting with. They have no marks other than a small run in one of the speaker grilles and were bought from a reputable dealer (Simply Hifi.)

If you are interested, PM me and I can email you some photos.

Regards

Chris

Seems these are still available at simply hifi,

http://www.simplyhifi.com.au/ (look under trade ins)

"Sonus Faber Extrema Stereo Loudpseakers complete with dedicated stands. The Extrema represents one of the fullest expressions of the art of speaker design. A key element in the Extrema design is the use of one of the world's best tweeters, Dynaudio's 28mm soft-dome Esotar T330. The unusual bass/mid driver includes an exceptionally large "Hexacoil" motor coil for a nominal 220mm framed driver of 145mm active diameter. This 75mm-diameter coil has a medium-term thermal rating of around 200W, but will sustain 2kW in doses of 10ms duration. Most 190mm bass/mid drivers have a much smaller 25 or 33mm coil, and only a 50W rating. The black satin central section of the enclosure is built of a patented sandwich construction—seven vertical slabs in all—bolted together to form a highly rigid, nonresonant structure. The outermost slabs are made of solid walnut 1.25" thick, beautifully finished and lock-mitered in a series of vertical steps to produce a warp-free assembly. In immaculate condition. For further info go to http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/915/ "

$6,999

just a guess but you dont work there do you Kaptnkolgate