Help! My system sounded unbalanced...

[Guest heeyeng]

Dear forumers, for some reason, I hear that my system that is bought just 2 weeks ago, well, sounded a tiny little bit unbalanced. This is hard to explain but please let me try...

 

Have you ever notice that your system, the right channel will produce more treble than bass, and the left channel will produce more bass than treble? That's what I found from my system. I am listening to mostly female vocals and sexaphone (so more treble in a sense). At first few days of listening, I have notice a slight off to the right side for every single disc, every single track I play. Then I did an funny experiment, I unplug the right channel signal of AMP, leaving only 1 channel attached to AMP now, and I switch between pluggin in to right and left input of AMP. Well what I notice is when plugging into right input of AMP, the sound is much forward, more treble to be heard (of course only from right speaker), and vice versa when I plugged into left channel I heard less treble, but more bass...

 

I've switched between speaker, cables, and interconnect, but the effect is the same, so no doubt about those other elements.

 

Regarding this right = more treble and left = more bass, can anybody confirm this findings? I say again, it's not so much different, but it's just very subtle but noticeable, especially with good interconnects... Else I would guess maybe something is wrong with my amp... ???

[quekky]

could be your room, my room also got such effect

[Spunky]

Try this:

with the connections unchanged, switch the location of the spkr such that your amp's left ch is powering the right spkr and vice versa.

this will narrow down the possibility of faulty electronics.

 

**go further by switching L-R of the interconnect at the source end.

 

if problem remains, most likely room acoustic

[Guest heeyeng]

could be your room, my room also got such effect

 

Thought maybe that's the reason too, but until I put my right ear (only right ear) close to the speaker when doing the comparison, left speaker and right speaker produces different sound, even if the source is from 1 channel... quekky maybe you can try to double confirm with your system? May not be the room problem...

 

Many years ago when I was very young, I heard a older friend told me about the design of walkman, whereby the right and left channel actually are amplified slightly differently... or is it recorded slightly differently... that's what constitute to 'stereo'...

 

Can anybody confirm with that?

[Guest heeyeng]

with the connections unchanged, switch the location of the spkr such that your amp's left ch is powering the right spkr and vice versa.

 

Did that before, after speaker switching place, sound also switching place, becoming now left = more treble, right = more bass...

 

So still back to 'square one'.

[Guest Foodeater]

Owned it for 2 weeks you say?

 

Try to break in the speakers a wee bit more with some full range material... or get a pair of similiar speakers to do some testing perhaps? It's probably the only way to determine whether if it's the amp or whether it's the speakers...

 

Tell you an experience I had: I wasn't aware that even headphones needs breaking in... I was approached by a guy online who complained that his Sennheiser HD497's probably damaged because it didn't sound right, and I suggested that he leave his cans blasting, and it worked well fortunately.

 

So why not try it for a while, and it might sound even again, probably because the rubbers would have stretched evenly by then for all the drivers to work the way the designers wanted them to work... :)

 

Good luck!

[quekky]

not very sure about your system

 

for mine, i use 1 source (1 amp, 1 side of the channel), use a sin-wave tone gerenator to create wave files, burn cd, then use SPL meter to measure each speaker @ 1m @ 1W@1khz individually. both plots come out different, so i know it's my room or speaker

[aloychan]

Could you tell us how old is your system, 1 or 2 wks old ??? I suggest you run-in first, say abt 1mth. If after that 1mth you still have the same problem, call your dealers or sellers for answer.

 

Not likely rm, since you move your ear so close to the spks to hear the difference. Hv you move your system to another rm to do the same test ???

 

Could it be your spks connector on the back of your AMP.

Anyway, which brand of AMP you using.

 

Just my 2Cents.

[Mike Tan]

Hi,

 

I have similar problems until last week. For my case, my old integrated amp was the main cause. I used to positioned my right speaker a bit forward than the left. Although improved by a little but still not good enough.....

 

This problem was finally solved when I changed my amp last week :)

 

KC

[Mike Tan]

Interesting...what are the 2 amps in question?

 

 

The problem amp is a HarmanKardon 6500 and i bought an Arcam Alpha 8 from fellow forumer, Aiky ;)

[Guest heeyeng]

Thanks people for all your inputs! :)

 

I do not have a SPL meter... so can't do the experiment that you told. Will only use ears to judge then. Well I don't hear the 'loudness' as a difference here, loudness are to my ear, the same. However, it's rather more of a tonal balance, between left and right channels...

 

You know what, this afternoon I did another experiment, it's simple and you all can try also: I took the earphone of my discman, just put right plug to your right ear, then try with left plug also on your right ear, I am certain, very sure, that I hear different tonal among 2 plugs, right side got more treble, left side got more bass!

 

Please try it out, and tell me your findings here can? ;)

 

Is that the way that recording studios recorded in general? Maybe this is a norm just that we doesn't know? :)

 

Happy listening... :)

[Guest heeyeng]

Which case is it?

 

Case 1. Agree, speaker is definitely matched.

 

Case 2. I feel that in stereo, treble in the right tends to be tiny bit more than the left, bass in the left is tiny winy bit more than right.

 

Case 3. Yes, mono has no difference.

[Guest heeyeng]

Thanks everyone for your reply...

 

I finally concluded that it's the amp problem that's causing the unbalance. What I do to confirm is, I took a mono signal (radio mono) as input to the amp, turn the balance knob to left, listen, then right, listen... At first I couldn't hear the difference, but after a little bit more listening, I really can hear that the right channel produces clearer sound, left channel sound like having a thin cloth on it...

 

Well, do I have a case here to return for repair? :-[ Reason being the difference is kind of small, till maybe the dealer can't listen to the difference, and just reject to replace another one for me...

 

Another thing, heard this model is not importing to Singapore anymore, it's a Rotel 931 Mk2.

 

Gosh, do you guys know if send back for repair (under warranty), what will they do? Replace some components and return you the old thing (which I'm just afraid if QC is not good enough will cause more harm than good), or they will replace a totally new one? :-\

[Guest MLK]

Is the room square or rectangular? Is there any part of the room which has an indented portion to either side of the 'side wall'? Meaning not pure rectangular (inclusive of furniture).

[Lord Hawke]

Just to share a similar experience, heeyeng....

 

I was halfway through my hifi acquisitions when I encountered this problem. Gotten my amp, speakers and speaker cables, but no sources yet. I decided to hook up my old Sony Discman using a mic-to-RCA interconnect to my amp so I can assuage my hifi cravings.

 

Imagine my surprise to get the same problem as you did! :P The right side was sounding louder than the left. Tried everything, swap cables, change phase, position speakers, eventually use the Balance dial to correct the imbalance.

 

Well, tonight I found the culprit. When I plugged in my new CDP, like magic, everything was normal! :o Likely the mic jack side of the interconnect wasn't as tight enough or my Discman is koyat. Oh well...

 

Wah, I sure hope it's not your amp like you suspect. Perhaps if you could try a different source altogether? ??? It might help. Ok, so let's say the amp is at fault. Changing the source should not affect the imbalance. But if it did, then ah...

 

Hope this helps. Good luck! ;)

 

```-0

----|----

--|--

~~~/ \

Lord Hawke

 

[aloychan]

Lord Hawke, hope you enjoy the Rotel RCD-02 as much as I do.

 

Just my 2Cents.

[Lord Hawke]

Lord Hawke, hope you enjoy the Rotel RCD-02 as much as I do.

 

Check out my latest replies. Thanx for your help and advice! And of course, the tuner and cdp ;)

 

LH

[Guest heeyeng]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Well I did a lot of experiment yesterday night, and here's some of my observation for sharing:

 

Method 1: use radio mono signal from discman, set to no station region (so only hissing), use only right channel, and plug in to right input, then left input of amp

Findings 1: strange but true, very little difference, but there is, right channel is slight forward, left channel is slight layback

Conclusion 1: amplification of left and right channel is slightly different

 

Method 2: use the same signal, this time using both left and right input signal, and only plug in to right input of amp

Findings 2: to my surprise, the left and right source also sounded different, albeit it's mono, right is slight clearer, left is slight muff

Conclusion 2: source also make a difference in left and right

 

Many precaution was taking into concern (I didn't list out all) so please don't doubt on the trueness of this result... of course you can always do this experiment yourself.

 

So finally, what's the BIG conclusion, since amp amplified differently, source giving mono signal also differently? What I feel is, after some more test, although left source and right source are different, actually they sounded best when, left source amplified by left amp, and right source amplified by right amp.

 

Then from there I kind of observe, the genuine reason I feel that my system sounded more from the right, it's because in general my system is a bit too bright. I said before right channel produces more treble.

 

Now to confirm that again, I now try a warm speaker cable, and only to use on the HF of speaker. LF left untouched.

 

Walla! The vocals now sounded exactly dead centre! No more slight bias to the right!

 

I guess this could also answers the doubt of some previous reply, whereby you change your amp (the HK), or your cdp (the rotel), your system suddenly sounded balance again! Do you also notice at the same time your system sounded less bright?

 

So from there, I now have developed a rule of thumb for analysing a system: if the system sounded slight bias to the right, it may just be too bright. If it's balance, then you're getting there... some more little treat and tricks, you'll get a satisfying system! And That's What I Call Audiophile!

 

;D Thanks guys for reading, just to share with you 'cause I'm kind of excited to get this findings. Well maybe you'll still have doubt on the result. Well I have less doubt on myself, because I believe I have good hearing, because I played instruments, and I have tested and able to tell a 20khz signal. :P

 

Just my 2 cents! ;)

[hw]

i salute u for your patience and persistence!!!

at least your efforts did not go wasted :)

 

thanks for sharing!

[domho8]

Heeyeng

 

IMHO your 2 cents is really worth it. :)

[Lord Hawke]

Walla! The vocals now sounded exactly dead centre! No more slight bias to the right!

 

I guess this could also answers the doubt of some previous reply, whereby you change your amp (the HK), or your cdp (the rotel), your system suddenly sounded balance again! Do you also notice at the same time your system sounded less bright?

Good show heeyeng! Wow, that's a fair bit of investigative deduction there. Will take some time to digest it. Maybe you're right....

 

Oh and btw, it's 'Voila' not 'Walla'. ;)

 

LH

[chucks]

well done heeyeng and thanks for sharing.

 

patience and determination pays off in the end. may be tiring but thats wat makes it fun, rite?

[Guest heeyeng]

First of all thanks everyone for your comments! You made my day. :)

 

So in this case, can we simulate a case where the left channel is driving the right speaker and the right channel driving the left speaker, while maintaining the 'correct' stereo when we listen?

 

Since you're using the right channel of amp to drive the left speaker, the slight enhance of treble now comes from the left speaker. Totally to do with amp, nothing to do with speaker...

[yapks]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Well I did a lot of experiment yesterday night, and here's some of my observation for sharing:

 

Method 1: use radio mono signal from discman, set to no station region (so only hissing), use only right channel, and plug in to right input, then left input of amp

Findings 1: strange but true, very little difference, but there is, right channel is slight forward, left channel is slight layback

Conclusion 1: amplification of left and right channel is slightly different

 

Method 2: use the same signal, this time using both left and right input signal, and only plug in to right input of amp

Findings 2: to my surprise, the left and right source also sounded different, albeit it's mono, right is slight clearer, left is slight muff

Conclusion 2: source also make a difference in left and right

 

Many precaution was taking into concern (I didn't list out all) so please don't doubt on the trueness of this result... of course you can always do this experiment yourself.

 

So finally, what's the BIG conclusion, since amp amplified differently, source giving mono signal also differently? What I feel is, after some more test, although left source and right source are different, actually they sounded best when, left source amplified by left amp, and right source amplified by right amp.

 

Then from there I kind of observe, the genuine reason I feel that my system sounded more from the right, it's because in general my system is a bit too bright. I said before right channel produces more treble.

 

Now to confirm that again, I now try a warm speaker cable, and only to use on the HF of speaker. LF left untouched.

 

Walla! The vocals now sounded exactly dead centre! No more slight bias to the right!

 

I guess this could also answers the doubt of some previous reply, whereby you change your amp (the HK), or your cdp (the rotel), your system suddenly sounded balance again! Do you also notice at the same time your system sounded less bright?

 

So from there, I now have developed a rule of thumb for analysing a system: if the system sounded slight bias to the right, it may just be too bright. If it's balance, then you're getting there... some more little treat and tricks, you'll get a satisfying system! And That's What I Call Audiophile!

 

;D Thanks guys for reading, just to share with you 'cause I'm kind of excited to get this findings. Well maybe you'll still have doubt on the result. Well I have less doubt on myself, because I believe I have good hearing, because I played instruments, and I have tested and able to tell a 20khz signal. :P

 

Just my 2 cents! ;)

 

quote

if the system sounded slight bias to the right, it may just be too bright.

change your amp (the HK), or your cdp (the rotel), your system suddenly sounded balance again! Do you also notice at the same time your system sounded less bright?

end of quote

 

 

To summarise your finding

1. Bright sounding equipment is bias more to the right.

2. A balance system sounded less bright. Because manufacturers tame the brightness in the right channel to achieve the balance

 

.....?

[Guest heeyeng]

To summarise your finding

1. Bright sounding equipment is bias more to the right.

2. A balance system sounded less bright. Because manufacturers tame the brightness in the right channel to achieve the balance

 

I generally don't dare to make any 'solid' confirmation as to whether this is correct, just some personal findings... well your 1st point is what I found. And your 2nd point, no I don't know whether manufacturer will be doing something like that.

 

I can't be so sure of all those findings, mainly due to my lacking of knowledge in building an amp, there's no theory to support it. So sometimes I thought, isn't it be good if I can work for a company building hifi components? I'll sure be very dedicated to it. :)