Mid Range Analogue Setup

[BlurRhino]

On 1/17/2021 at 12:04 PM, blue_starfish said:

In my book, the hierachy of contributions to overall sound quality from most to least is :
1. Turntable   2. Tonearm   3. Phono stage    4. cartridge 
Others will have a different opinion

 

Get the best turntable you like and can afford. Better still, buy the one that costs more than you can afford but you really like. As it will stay with you for a long time. A turntable  is a mechanical item that lasts decades. It is made with the same precision as a mechanical watch. The price only goes up, never comes down. Unlike electronic devices. Also TT do not become obsolete the moment it leaves the shop. 

 

My reasoning for putting the lowest priority on the cartridge at initial spending is that it is a consumable item. Wear and tear is high and by 2,000 hours usage there is degradation and time to look for a replacement. Also, a cartridge is very prone to fatal (and expensive ) accidents. I have committed my share from carelessness. Just imagine your $2k cartridge suffering an irrepairable damage from landing a stylus outside the record. A few weeks after buying it. Not as rare an occurrence as you might expect, and more likely after a few single-malts. Even for non-drinkers, cartridges are damaged from cleaning with a brush when the stylus snags a bristle or cloth. Cartridges are not sold with warranty for accidents. With a few exceptions few cartridges are factory repairable. Even those that are repairable at your cost may not be able to do after the master maker dies. 

A phono stage is placed second lowest as it is an electronic item that is easily bought and sold without need for dealer support. The only variables are gain and impedence. These are easily user set by way of switches at front panel, or dip switches in the case. The phono can be upgraded without affecting the tonearm setup. 

 

$10k is a healthy budget for a first table. With careful selection, you will get something that comfortable beats digital unless your digital rig is well into 5-digit territory. IMHO, none of the shops mentioned demo their TT at their best. They are constrained by shop conditions to cater for customers wanting to hear different stuff. If you really want to hear analog, go visit bros who own the table you intend to buy. Visit with curry puffs  in hand . 
 

 

Thanks, ability to resell or trade in is also something i think about and no dealers will take in cartridge for trade in. I want to get something for a start to see whether i really enjoy before i consider to invest more in the future, but it cannot be so mediocre that i will miss the digital playback. So i have been hopping around shops hopefully to hear something i like and to get as is - so that i have a benchmark against what i will hear at home. Like you say these shops did not setup in ideal conditions so rightfully i should be able to get better sound at home. May i ask what is the reference setup that you used? 

[blue_starfish]

16 hours ago, BlurRhino said:

 

Thanks, ability to resell or trade in is also something i think about and no dealers will take in cartridge for trade in. I want to get something for a start to see whether i really enjoy before i consider to invest more in the future, but it cannot be so mediocre that i will miss the digital playback. So i have been hopping around shops hopefully to hear something i like and to get as is - so that i have a benchmark against what i will hear at home. Like you say these shops did not setup in ideal conditions so rightfully i should be able to get better sound at home. May i ask what is the reference setup that you used? 

Analog fact #1 - cartridge (unless super high end and unused) have no or little trade in or resale value. What you spend be prepared to write off. Unless the brand has manufacturer guarantee of trade-in. Then people buy at a scrap price to trade-in

Analog fact #2 - unless you are buying a TT well into 5 digits and a demo unit is available, you won't get a home trial. You have to trust your gut feel, knowing that if it sounds good at dealer, it will sound even better at home. It is too difficult to move a TT once setup.

[chilli2]

take a look on a new technics SL1200, this TT can serve you many years

[BlurRhino]

Thanks all for the advice, really appreciate it. Have settled on the Goldnote Pianosa setup as i enjoy working with the folks at Audio Atelier, plus their offer includes the flexibility of an attractive trade in deal if i decide to go for the upgrade later. 

 

I have this in my system for a few days already, so far its awesome and way above my expectations. Pure sound quality alone, think you all are right to say that it's cheaper to get good sound from an analogue setup compare to digital setup. And it has that indescribable charm that can just draw you into the music. Don't think I will just dump my 20+k digital setup for analogue as the convenience is still important to me, but probably going forward will spend more time to understand analogue and stuff. And buy more records of course.  

[Guest wusplay]

An interesting real live experience of digital vs analog, a well setup mid range turnaround vs a more expensive streamer dac.

There is a thing about conveying emotion of music with analog setup. Can digital do it as well?

 

[blue_starfish]

9 hours ago, BlurRhino said:

Thanks all for the advice, really appreciate it. Have settled on the Goldnote Pianosa setup as i enjoy working with the folks at Audio Atelier, plus their offer includes the flexibility of an attractive trade in deal if i decide to go for the upgrade later. 

 

I have this in my system for a few days already, so far its awesome and way above my expectations. Pure sound quality alone, think you all are right to say that it's cheaper to get good sound from an analogue setup compare to digital setup. And it has that indescribable charm that can just draw you into the music. Don't think I will just dump my 20+k digital setup for analogue as the convenience is still important to me, but probably going forward will spend more time to understand analogue and stuff. And buy more records of course.  

 

Congratulations. A good choice. The sound will get even better as the cartridge and phono cable run in. If you like it now, you will love analog after 100 hours of spinning.  

[BlurRhino]

12 hours ago, wusplay said:

An interesting real live experience of digital vs analog, a well setup mid range turnaround vs a more expensive streamer dac.

There is a thing about conveying emotion of music with analog setup. Can digital do it as well?

 

I think can be done.. just with a lot more efforts to fine tune and investments into all the components to match.
 

8 hours ago, blue_starfish said:

 

Congratulations. A good choice. The sound will get even better as the cartridge and phono cable run in. If you like it now, you will love analog after 100 hours of spinning.  

Thanks man, I already love what I hearing now  

[zephyr11]

Looks great! 

 

analog is addictive, so many things to tweak, so many things to try. 

 

not to mention the record buying part. 

 

hope you already have a record brush, stylus brush/ cleaner. that is quite impt to have. 

[BlurRhino]

11 hours ago, zephyr11 said:

Looks great! 

 

analog is addictive, so many things to tweak, so many things to try. 

 

not to mention the record buying part. 

 

hope you already have a record brush, stylus brush/ cleaner. that is quite impt to have. 

Yup got both but for the record brushes i not so comfortable to use. To me it seems like no matter how light pressure i apply, it seems to leave streaks behind on the records. End up i got one big make up brush with horse hair and i thought it works better in leaving those dust and particles.

[zephyr11]

i don't think the streaks from the brush will cause any problems to the records, i maybe wrong though. 

 

[BlurRhino]

14 hours ago, zephyr11 said:

i don't think the streaks from the brush will cause any problems to the records, i maybe wrong though. 

 

ya i mean with those streaks on the record it still can be played.. and i don't really hear anything unusual but just don't seems right to me. haha

[zephyr11]

don't stress it too much, from my understanding they are quite hardy, as long as you didn't drop or scratch them should be ok. enjoy the music!

 

 

[luvmusic77]

On 2/7/2021 at 1:37 AM, BlurRhino said:

Thanks all for the advice, really appreciate it. Have settled on the Goldnote Pianosa setup as i enjoy working with the folks at Audio Atelier, plus their offer includes the flexibility of an attractive trade in deal if i decide to go for the upgrade later. 

 

I have this in my system for a few days already, so far its awesome and way above my expectations. Pure sound quality alone, think you all are right to say that it's cheaper to get good sound from an analogue setup compare to digital setup. And it has that indescribable charm that can just draw you into the music. Don't think I will just dump my 20+k digital setup for analogue as the convenience is still important to me, but probably going forward will spend more time to understand analogue and stuff. And buy more records of course.  

 

Congrats! Welcome to the dark side! it's a good looking TT and sure it also sound wonderful from your description.

 

 

 

[BlurRhino]

On 2/10/2021 at 8:39 AM, zephyr11 said:

don't stress it too much, from my understanding they are quite hardy, as long as you didn't drop or scratch them should be ok. enjoy the music!

 

 

 

On 2/11/2021 at 12:26 PM, luvmusic77 said:

 

Congrats! Welcome to the dark side! it's a good looking TT and sure it also sound wonderful from your description.

 

 

 

thanks bros! Really enjoying but probably I spend too much on records. Haha.. 

 

happy lunar new year everyone!

[683ekipS]

Your journey is not done yet Bro. 
 

Now you will need a good record cleaning machine (RCM).  With a good RCM, the pops and clicks will be banished.  And if the RCM is equipped with static removal then even better.

 

Using my RCM, I got cleaner stylus and very little dust on my records.

 

I will rate RCM as money well spent.

[BlurRhino]

On 2/12/2021 at 6:51 PM, 683ekipS said:

Your journey is not done yet Bro. 
 

Now you will need a good record cleaning machine (RCM).  With a good RCM, the pops and clicks will be banished.  And if the RCM is equipped with static removal then even better.

 

Using my RCM, I got cleaner stylus and very little dust on my records.

 

I will rate RCM as money well spent.

 

Yup at some point will probably get one.. at this juncture the folks at audio atelier had kindly offered to help me do so if i need any records to be cleaned.

[stvc]

On 2/12/2021 at 6:51 PM, 683ekipS said:

Your journey is not done yet Bro. 
 

Now you will need a good record cleaning machine (RCM).  With a good RCM, the pops and clicks will be banished.  And if the RCM is equipped with static removal then even better.

 

Using my RCM, I got cleaner stylus and very little dust on my records.

 

I will rate RCM as money well spent.

Any good RCM to recommend? I personally believe ultrasonic do a better cleaning job but heard it would impact the sound!

[Guest francishuang]

9 hours ago, stvc said:

Any good RCM to recommend? I personally believe ultrasonic do a better cleaning job but heard it would impact the sound!

Nessie or Hannl

 

[683ekipS]

This is the Clearaudio RCM I’m using. I like it because it cleans both sides at the same time. 

[683ekipS]

@BlurRhino At the end of the cleaning cycle, there is the static removal cycle. I will have the vinyl spin 3-5 rounds. And it is sufficient to have the lp free of static. 
 

I hardly need to clean my stylus. Plus my Zerostat Milty has not been used since I got this RCM

[BlurRhino]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:48 PM, 683ekipS said:

@BlurRhino At the end of the cleaning cycle, there is the static removal cycle. I will have the vinyl spin 3-5 rounds. And it is sufficient to have the lp free of static. 
 

I hardly need to clean my stylus. Plus my Zerostat Milty has not been used since I got this RCM

 

Thanks for sharing, i was looking at these different RCM options and it all required quite a fair bit of space.. So far seems like only Degritter fits the space i have but will continue to look around. 

[683ekipS]

Personally went thru the the many different methods and designs of RCM. 

Agree that ultrasonic method is ‘theoretically’ effective.

I even tried a MIC ultrasonic cleaner and although there were improvements to lessen the noise (clicks crackles & pops), I was certain it was not the full solution. 
IMHO a RCM must also have a good vacuum suction, just like a Loricraft. That’s probably the best (only?) way to get the stuff off the grooves. 
And that’s how I ended up with the Clearaudio