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So the MP-60 is setup now and I've level matched, added sub amp delays. Took me 9 measurements to get to 99%.  Amazing sound quality, i'm speechless at how transparent and dynamic the preamp/proc

Yes if possible, use all 4 auxiliary for subwoofers. You can count on RP to do a decent job with its auto eq function the voicings you see in the processor, are just house curves used. The action

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Nice room & setup. May I know if this setup is in the bedroom or living room?

Hello LTTan,

 

Thank you for your kind words. The setup it's in the living room.

 

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Bro,

 

Have not tried LFE yet. I plan over the weekend to do calibration on just front subs using AUX & LFE. Den share the comparison on the both. How do we measure the distance if we using LFE only? Example like me. 5084acdeca6cbe268da8caea08c69b7b.jpg

 

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Superb setup bro. :) Big Congrats and your definitely enjoy it :) Happy for u.

Never see your Dual Arendal Beast subs :)

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Hello all,

 

As mentioned from bro ronildoq to not increase the LFE gain. So I'm the champion which did that.  ;D

 

I'm using aux 1 to 4 as I've 4subs. So I was exploring to understand why I did not have good bass. But after adding in the +10db in LFE, I felt the bass is alive from what I've felt from using Denon 7200wa(borrowed from a brother Winwinc81).

 

I went to rew & looked at my graphs(I will upload the photos over the weekend). Before calibrating all my subs are in phase(front sub 180° & rear sub 0°).

 

After roomperfect , my front subs are in phase, but to my shocking my rear subs are not in phase. So I wrote an email regarding I'm not getting good bass without telling them of the out of phase issues on my rear subs.

 

Myself

 

Hello Smith,

 

Thanks for the advise. I've swapped the fronts with the subs. I ain't getting good bass effect. I would like to have some advise on this. Do I connect using LFE or from the aux 1-4 since I'm having 4subs. I've connected aux 1-4 at the moment. After calibration I've to up the LFE(trim audio) to +10db & I'm getting good bass effect. Would like to hear your recommendation /advice on this.

 

 

Mr. Smith

 

Hi

 

if you have been setting up your speakers in the menu, you will see which outputs are dedicated to each speaker

 

when you set the front woofers to LEFT and RIGHT, the corresponding outputs will light up on the setup page

 

your problems are probably due to your rear woofers being out of phase – causing a lot of smearing

 

– I would suggest that you do not connect these and try to do a calibration just with the two fronts

 

as these are now in the corners, they will perform 3 to 6 dB higher than before 

 

Actually I'm quite shocked that they probably knew of the rear subs being out of phase.

 

I will try to calibrate just the front subs & unplugging the rear subs over the weekends.

 

I would like to thank bro ronildoq especially for entertaining my questions when I really was in doubt. Hopefully I'm not that annoying  :-\

Went back home today to upload this. Hopefully I gotten the rew correct & apologies if it's wrong on my doing.

 

Using neutral & MV at -30

As mention 4subs. 2x JL Audio E112 (front subs) 2x Arendal Sub3 (rear subs) Connecting it via Aux 1-4

 

When using Ch3, only the front subs are activated. Using Ch4 all subs will be activated.

 

I've muted the center(ch3) when measuring during rew. 784d8266af7d57e96d05441d4cd87170.jpg8a481657a1d84186c6e56afc523b0889.jpg

 

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Superb setup bro. :) Big Congrats and your definitely enjoy it :) Happy for u.

Never see your Dual Arendal Beast subs :)

Hello rock123,

 

Thank you for your kind words bro. Arendal subs at the rear. Hehehe

 

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Went back home today to upload this. Hopefully I gotten the rew correct & apologies if it's wrong on my doing.

 

Using neutral & MV at -30

As mention 4subs. 2x JL Audio E112 (front subs) 2x Arendal Sub3 (rear subs) Connecting it via Aux 1-4

 

When using Ch3, only the front subs are activated. Using Ch4 all subs will be activated.

 

I've muted the center(ch3) when measuring during rew. 784d8266af7d57e96d05441d4cd87170.jpg8a481657a1d84186c6e56afc523b0889.jpg

 

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Bro do this

 

On MV-30, measure channel 4. Mute all amplifier for speakers . This will measure the LFE channel, that 0.1 track

 

On MV-20, measure channel 3, mute all amplifier. This will show if bass is being routed correctly from centre channel to the subs , ie bass management is working as intended when u engage the XO. XO for centre at 200hz just for this test to confirm

 

Measure this with global profile or room perfect engaged

 

Then for the range,  if u subs can go Low, measure from 10hz to 200hz... see how it shows

 

I’ve just got some replies at avs forum someone confirming that the subs for auxiliary is to be used with boundary woofers

 

So I believe we should use the LFE. Ive just hooked up the ddrc88a last night, will use Dirac to EQ subs then send the signal to lyngdorf for RP integration , taking different route now

 

I will verify and confirm again

 

 

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When u engage a XO 100hz on centre channel. Example.

 

If bass management is working, that means any frequencies below 100hz will be handled by the subwoofer.

 

LFE track also plays frequencies up to 100hz if you set the Low pass filter to 100hz.

 

But on rew, measuring channel 4 means measuring the LFE channel. Measuring channel 3 means measuring centre channel. So by muting channel 3 (ie amp for centre speakers) , it will send a signal to channel 3, but remember channel 3 is having xo at 100hz, so u can see from here if bass is being routed correctly to the subs

 

But LFE channel , ie channel 4, is 10db louder.

 

So measuring at mv-20 for channel 3, mv-30 for channel 4, will show you an indentical amplitude response at least up to 100hz. You then can confirm that bass management is working as intended in the avr

 

I’m pretty sure the auxiliary channels are not meant for use with our normal subs after performing the above exercise . OR it could be a firmware issue. So I need to confirm measurements again when subs are connected to LFE

 

 

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How does room perfect integrate my 4subs using aux 1-4 (125hz)

 

MV -30, Neutral (Ch 4 only)

 

7f9558aa3cef0c101aee118653d6bf88.jpg

 

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Bro looks good all subs summing up. Is this after RP ? Global EQ or Focus EQ ?

 

The one in red, sum of all subs at -30mv, measure another channel 3 sum of all subs at -20mv , overlay them

 

Look at 2 things

 

1) if the response is identical

2) if it’s attenuating deep bass < 30hz -20hz

 

I think that’s the crux of the issue here using auxiliary channels

 

If u measure channel 3 at mv -30, u should see the graph having +10db apart from the one on channel 4, then you can confirm the channel balance is correct , ie LFE .1 track is +10db louder than mains

 

 

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9fb8256045018e2eba910ef4db21d4ea.jpg

 

See this one of the guys on avs using the MP50, confirms as well that the auxiliary channel subs are meant to go with the lyngdorf type of boundary subwoofers

 

Those stacked at corner line source type of boundary woofers that is efficient in the high pass band. This arrangement brings much greater benefits where room modes are greatly reduced

 

When the subs are stacked from floor to ceiling in “line source”, the reflections off ceiling and floor is eliminated, we are then left with corner (left right) boundaries , this then produces the speed and Attack

 

Same methodology applied by the Ken Kreisel subs , stack stack stack using dual oppose design in their subs. Will be very effective when it comes to stack from floor to ceiling , that’s when time domain response plays a huge impact on the transient Attack from the subs

 

So small 8”-10” Drivers, stacked in a line , high pass band up to 800hz, pairs with the mains being XO at 700hz, placed at the corners, floor to ceiling , then it goes with the auxiliary channels

 

So yes, our subs are good for LFE, not meant to be used with the auxiliary, unless you go the above approach. The above is only beneficial when taking advantage of the vertical room modes, subs that play up to 800hz type. No benefits whatsoever below 80hz

 

Hope that helps, I’d suggest you use the LFE for all subs, that’s what I’ll be doing now

 

 

 

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Hi,

 

There are some  interesting findings here. It seems for sub, time domain optimization has more impact than frequency domain through actual lisetening test. A perfect flat graph in freq domain does not guarantee superb sub performance.

However these two are inter-related. For example reducing peak to to improve time domain response to say within certain decay time at certain freq will also affect the freq response graph to be less than ideal.

  If so is there a way to optimize time domain and frequency domain for sub without compromising one another ?

Please share. Thanks

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Hi Spyder-Man!! You are my fav superhero!!

 

It seems for sub, time domain optimization has more impact than frequency domain through actual lisetening test. A perfect flat graph in freq domain does not guarantee superb sub performance. <-- you are right. That is why you will hear some people saying, flat graph but doesnt sound nice. Better not EQ or better use ears. But whats missing here is the Time Domain measurements. Both need to be right. I can confirm that a superior time domain alignment is miles better than a perfect amplitude response. You can see from the graph ive achieved that +-0.5db 8-100hz with Dirac EQ, but yet find that room perfect sounded way better due to superior time alignment of mains + subs and a good uniformed decay rate

 

reducing peak to improve time domain response to say within certain decay time at certain freq will also affect the freq response graph to be less than ideal.<—yes and no. It depends how that peak is brought down, there is a difference between using a Modal Filter and Peak Filter. Modal filters are used to accurately counter modal frequencies in the room to match a specific T60 time. A peak filter just attenuates a given peak at a specific frequency, its filters doesn’t account for T60 time. A lot of the minidsp devices comes with modal filters . One thing you need to note is that a peak at MLP may not necessarily translate to a peak at listening position 2. So that is why some peaks are not attenuated because they are not really standing waves or modal frequencies. Another thing is that there is a difference between time alignment vs improving decay times. What RP does very well is time aligning all subs with all speakers in play. It’s the integration part so all impulse hit at the same time at MLP as how they are supposed to. The real challenge is the longer wavelengths & its reflections off walls that arrives later at MLP , especially from lower frequencies. It also does a good job with improving decay times . So two different important things it improves here.

 

 

  If so is there a way to optimize time domain and frequency domain for sub without compromising one another ?

Please share. Thanks <— it’s easy to get the best amplitude response as can be seen from my work using Dirac above. But it’s very hard to achieve superior time alignment between subs and mains, plus all other speakers, this part is very very difficult. You can probably optimise subs with centre speakers, as that speaker matters most for HT. That is the best you can do. Other programmes like JBL’s arcos system does a great job as well

 

 

 

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