Lyngdorf Owners & Discussion Thread

[htkaki]

Sudden loud distortion that took me by surprise. Anyhow, I have yet to do channel level check. Will run the Dolby call-out channel test.

 

I just read through almost all pages. Seems like I need to redo the distance by using REW (like ronildoq mentioned) instead of relying on actual measurement.

[Djblackfm]

Sudden loud distortion that took me by surprise. Anyhow, I have yet to do channel level check. Will run the Dolby call-out channel test.

 

I just read through almost all pages. Seems like I need to redo the distance by using REW (like ronildoq mentioned) instead of relying on actual measurement.

Yes. Using rew to get the distance is a better choice. Following ronildoq advise and teaching you won't go wrong. Can share your journey here [emoji4]

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

 

[htkaki]

What’s also updated on 3.9 firmware

 

Note regarding RoomPerfect gains in installer menu – “Channel gain” page:

/The RoomPerfect levels you see on the gains page, have been normalized in recent Software. That means the channel that plays the loudest is displayed as 0dB.

//So the absolute number is not important, what you can see from them, is the difference between the channels. And if LFE is 0dB, that means it's the one we've measured to be the highest. If he looks at the differences between the channels, they should be the same as with old SW.

 

 

Hi Ronildoq,

 

If I understand this correctly, this means the channel with 0db as RP is the loudest of all channels. This will be used as reference for trim level? Will use Dolby tones to do. TIA

[ronildoq]

Hi Ronildoq,

 

If I understand this correctly, this means the channel with 0db as RP is the loudest of all channels. This will be used as reference for trim level? Will use Dolby tones to do. TIA

 

Yes your understanding is correct. What might be of interest to you is that in the RP correction process, the algorithm aims for a 85db spl at 0 volume using a -20dbfs Signal.

 

In my case where I use all 4 auxiliary Connections for subwoofers to produce this “ physchoacoustic bass steering” , they (All 4 subs) get “leveled” to 85db as well. This makes overall volume much much softter as we know that when all subs sum in phase, technically we should see a 12db gain down Low frequency , assuming they have  all been gained matched to 85db

 

So to compensate for this, I will adjust the volume on the subwoofer amp plate to get to my desired levels . But do this only if you have a meter and u know what you are doing

[htkaki]

Yes your understanding is correct. What might be of interest to you is that in the RP correction process, the algorithm aims for a 85db spl at 0 volume using a -20dbfs Signal.

 

In my case where I use all 4 auxiliary Connections for subwoofers to produce this “ physchoacoustic bass steering” , they (All 4 subs) get “leveled” to 85db as well. This makes overall volume much much softter as we know that when all subs sum in phase, technically we should see a 12db gain down Low frequency , assuming they have  all been gained matched to 85db

 

So to compensate for this, I will adjust the volume on the subwoofer amp plate to get to my desired levels . But do this only if you have a meter and u know what you are doing

Got it. Can you share your channel gain result?

 

Also, on the distance measurement, I use REW acoustic timing reference. Chose the closest spkr which is SBL (set as 0). Strangely, the result for the other speakers are mostly in the negative except top front right. In this instance, shall I use  reverse it by using the channel with the highest negative (as 0) ?

 

When I did this, I noticed that the ceiling speakers are almost 7-10db louder. I have yet to do channel leveling though.

[ronildoq]

Got it. Can you share your channel gain result?

 

Also, on the distance measurement, I use REW acoustic timing reference. Chose the closest spkr which is SBL (set as 0). Strangely, the result for the other speakers are mostly in the negative except top front right. In this instance, shall I use  reverse it by using the channel with the highest negative (as 0) ?

 

When I did this, I noticed that the ceiling speakers are almost 7-10db louder. I have yet to do channel leveling though.

 

U don’t have to do the reverse, but u can if you want. It’s actually the same, the numbers as a result from ATR, allows u to delay the Timing Of the reference speaker instead. Whichever u use will work. Either u use the furthest speakers as ATR and delay all the near speakers, or u use the nearest speaker as ATR, and delay the reference speaker itself, or add distance to speed up the time of other speakers. It depends on the controls available to you

 

But with the processor mp50, adding distance speeds up the time instead. So when u use the nearest speaker as ATR, u r telling the processor that the further speaker is x timing away, processor needs to send the signal earlier. So u input the distance on the further speakers, so the avr will send the signal earlier to match the nearest speaker instead

 

At the end of the day, the distance need not be the measured distance from speaker to MLP. What it needs is to have a reference point(MLP), where the signal is sent out at the same time to this spot from all the speakers and subwoofer. When u can achieve this together with all the subwoofers, then you are on the right track

 

It’s good to know u r using this approach for your system integration. It’s the best approach from my personal findings . There is still work To be done before room perfect, it’s not just one click button go out for coffee come back and everything is done. 

 

Good job !

[ronildoq]

Oh now I recall something. If you are using the Oppo video out directly to PJ, and audio in only to the lyngdorf, turn off the hdmi video in , circled in green

 

 

Only use hdmi audio in, circled in blue , eliminate sending the video signal, that will have varying clock times

 

[emoji1303]

 

I’m using this method for both ATV4K and Oppo 205. The video is sent to a HD fury, which then sends the video only signal to the Pj.

 

A secondary hdmi, which carries the audio signal only of Oppo 205, goes to the lyngdorf directly, the audio part for ATV4K, comes from the hd fury eARC/ARC port, they are all separate, each for video and audio

 

This method of connection, helps reduce jitter

 

Definition of jitter

 

The question is not about whether HDMI can carry digital audio data accurately in a bit-for-bit perfect sense (it can!), but whether it can deliver the data bits at perfect time intervals based on the original audio clock timing. When data bits arrive at slightly varying time intervals, the problem is called "jitter" and it has negative impact on the quality of converting the audio data back to audible sound, a process called digital-to-analogue conversion.

 

TIMING , TIMING , TIMING....

 

This one word rules them all

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[hifiman]

Hi everyone,

 

So I've taken the plunge and will be receiving my MP-60 soon.

 

It's advisable to use REW to level match and set distances before i start RP?

 

Also currently I have 2 subs, I intend to put them both in Front L + R corner and then I have another custom horm sub being made for the back right corner.

 

My main use is 70% HT 30% music. I've read most of the Lyngdorf threads here and in other forums (Avsforum/avforum) and there appears to be some debate on how to setup multiple subs.

 

Either we have all 3 of my subs set as LFE - for more even room response (standard way) OR

 

Set Front L and Front R as Aux 1 and 2 for stereo boundary bass (effectively making my F and L speaker a full range speaker as they will be set to small) and the third subwoofer in the back R corner to be using LFE channel.

 

Has anyone compared both and what was the conclusion?

[ronildoq]

Hi everyone,

 

So I've taken the plunge and will be receiving my MP-60 soon.

 

It's advisable to use REW to level match and set distances before i start RP?

 

Also currently I have 2 subs, I intend to put them both in Front L + R corner and then I have another custom horm sub being made for the back right corner.

 

My main use is 70% HT 30% music. I've read most of the Lyngdorf threads here and in other forums (Avsforum/avforum) and there appears to be some debate on how to setup multiple subs.

 

Either we have all 3 of my subs set as LFE - for more even room response (standard way) OR

 

Set Front L and Front R as Aux 1 and 2 for stereo boundary bass (effectively making my F and L speaker a full range speaker as they will be set to small) and the third subwoofer in the back R corner to be using LFE channel.

 

Has anyone compared both and what was the conclusion?

 

Congratulations !! Not really cheap processor, but it’s worth it . To fully realise it’s potential, you must use rew with the acoustic timing reference feature to set the distance. The guides mention using a tape measure, but what you really want to factor in is amplifier latency.

 

On the new firmware, this is provided. So together with amplifier latency + measured distance, one can easily provide the values. ( u will need to check with manufacturer on the latency if you are not sure) generally, it is between 1-2ms, but can go up to 3-4ms depending on what is connected in between

 

You can try either options. But I would get a 4th subwoofer and place all subs at each corner, using auxiliary 1-4, then assign them as LR front, and LR back respectively

 

This creates something called physchoacoustic bass steering , very desirable for HT

 

All 4 subs will handle LFE at the same times. ( don’t have to plug anything into LFE).What is important here, is to use a negative -10db trim on the individual subs before EQ, and instead, raise the level knobs on the subwoofer amplifier so each individual sub is reading 75db spl at MLP . This is more than sufficient level to prevent any clipping in the digital domain (the mp60)

 

All you need to do, is to time align all 4 subs to MLP, get their distances then proceed with room perfect. Room perfect will work it’s magic to align every speaker to the research subwoofers. The topic for time alignment is for another day, but can be found in planet bass

[hifiman]

Thanks, quite exciting!

 

I have dual X12 subs so the people on Avforum have been given the latency figures for that sub model already. In order for me to level match and set the trim, I do need a minidsp balanced device and set the levels before RP then, or it is jew REW + acoustic timing reference feature.

[ronildoq]

I use REW, minidsp UMIK 1 for everything

 

Personally, I don’t use tape measure, I use the ATR feature on rew, that measurement will take into account the latency

 

Next I use pink periodic noise, pull up RTA, adjust the sub levels on the fly, using DBz, to show 75db when mic is placed at MLP. But this is for individual subs. If all 4 subs are perfectly time aligned, they will sum in phase as well, with +12db gain down lower frequencies

 

Once all subs are aligned, all speakers are aligned, it is also good practice to align any one speaker to the 4 subs, see if they sum in phase at the XO region. Once they sum, the entire system will be time aligned. U will need to know what XO to use

 

Ideally, cross it at an octave above its roll off frequency, so if it rolls off at 40hz, then u cross this at 80hz. Personally, I set everything to 100hz, so subs handle everything below 100hz, this uniformed approach for XO sounds better to me. Better than having some at 60hz, some at 80hz, some at 120hz so on. Uniformed across all speakers sounded best to me

 

Then u give room perfect eq a “head start”... the results will be

 

Of course if u r crazy like me, then stack sub pairs are the best ! The purpose of the stack is not to bring the entire building down, but to let the system have ample headroom in cruising mode...

 

Then it’s a different ball game entirely...

[hifiman]

So the MP-60 is setup now and I've level matched, added sub amp delays. Took me 9 measurements to get to 99%. 

Amazing sound quality, i'm speechless at how transparent and dynamic the preamp/processor is. It's in a different league to other ones I bet.

In my speaker configuration I have 5 speakers  setup + Aux1 + Aux 2. (FL C FR SL SR Front sub 1 Front sub 2) I am bitstreaming from madvr htpc.  No LFE channel. 

 I have an issue though, playing atmos/TrueHD and DTS-MA mkv remux files, I only see the HD Audio logic light up?  What is wrong with my config?:

[Djblackfm]

5 hours ago, hifiman said:

So the MP-60 is setup now and I've level matched, added sub amp delays. Took me 9 measurements to get to 99%. 

Amazing sound quality, i'm speechless at how transparent and dynamic the preamp/processor is. It's in a different league to other ones I bet.

In my speaker configuration I have 5 speakers  setup + Aux1 + Aux 2. (FL C FR SL SR Front sub 1 Front sub 2) I am bitstreaming from madvr htpc.  No LFE channel. 

 I have an issue though, playing atmos/TrueHD and DTS-MA mkv remux files, I only see the HD Audio logic light up?  What is wrong with my config?:

Able to try see if you click onto the upmixing will it pop out Dolby Atmos after selecting the codec. 

[hifiman]

6 hours ago, Djblackfm said:

Able to try see if you click onto the upmixing will it pop out Dolby Atmos after selecting the codec. 

Yes I tried this and no difference. 

Do i need to enable LFE channel and height speakers for the decoder to work, even though I don't have any? I would have thought i would get TruHD Surround at least. 

[ronildoq]

14 hours ago, hifiman said:

So the MP-60 is setup now and I've level matched, added sub amp delays. Took me 9 measurements to get to 99%. 

Amazing sound quality, i'm speechless at how transparent and dynamic the preamp/processor is. It's in a different league to other ones I bet.

In my speaker configuration I have 5 speakers  setup + Aux1 + Aux 2. (FL C FR SL SR Front sub 1 Front sub 2) I am bitstreaming from madvr htpc.  No LFE channel. 

 I have an issue though, playing atmos/TrueHD and DTS-MA mkv remux files, I only see the HD Audio logic light up?  What is wrong with my config?:

Is that happening with every Remuxed file in MKV ? Have you tried .ts container ? MKV containers are known to have some issues with Atmos tracks

[hifiman]

44 minutes ago, ronildoq said:

Is that happening with every Remuxed file in MKV ? Have you tried .ts container ? MKV containers are known to have some issues with Atmos tracks

DTS-MA seems to work out and everything else seems to be just "HD Audio which is definitely surround but I don't know what audio codec it's using. My previous processor detected DTS-MA/TruHD/Atmos fine with same settings. I don't want to go back into speaker config and add extra speaker locations since that will require RP measurements again - on second thought, i did back up already so i suppose i could go in and make some changes then load the backup again. 

My theory is the LFE channel is not selected since I'm using Aux1/Aux2 and no height channels are visible so the processor will not engage Atmos. 

I'll come back with my findings. 

[hifiman]

So I played 3 files, first was a DTX-X file which the logo lights up, then tried 8-10 different Atmos tracks and it shows Dolby Atmos - TrueHD for 2 seconds then it goes away and just the "HD Audio" stays. I think this is probably normal. If i did have height channels I bet the atmos Logo would show up too. 

When i pause the files, it does change audio to "Audio 192.0 kHz 7.1.0 PCM" and then when i resume/play it shows the decoding. 

I've also attached my speaker setup as well for reference. 

This processor is dangerous, you can turn up the volume to insane levels and watch for a while and then using my SPL meter, I'm over 95db?!! This goes for both music and movies. It's unlike any other processor I've ever heard, the differences in tonality especially voices so clear and natural. I was thinking of getting another 2 subs for Aux3 & 4 but even now there is no bloated base, its very quick and tight and impactful when needed. 

Over at the AVforums the next firmware upgrade should include the DTS-X Pro, Imax enhanced mode and various bug fixes + other things they are still working on. 

The voicings are pretty good, I use Music and Action+movies, anyone know what Action on it's own is for, would be nice to try out other voicing recommendations if others have some custom ones. 

 

thanks!

[ronildoq]

Yes if possible, use all 4 auxiliary for subwoofers. You can count on RP to do a decent job with its auto eq function

the voicings you see in the processor, are just house curves used. The action curve applies a house curve of +6db from about 120hz to 30hz, using a high shelf filter, the movie action curve has the same filters + gentle roll off from 8khz onwards , about 1-2db . So the action + movie has a high frequency roll off, something similar to Audyssey “reference curve”

so depending on how reverberant the room is, each filter will work differently 

If you have a lot of absorption treatments in your room , “action curve/ flat curve will work better” . Because the first reflection points are now being absorbed and they no longer reflect back into the room. 
 

but if you have an untreated room, and if u play action curve (flat curve no roll off) the higher frequencies will sound much louder. This is based on fletcher Munson theory where humans perceive loudness at higher frequencies to be louder and also partly because sound becomes directional as you move up higher frequencies , unlike Low frequencies where it is non directional

so if you use a lot of diffusion at the first reflection points, u want to go with (action + movie) so the high frequencies are rolled off to give you that balance from 20-20khz

 

so that’s what the voicing does, let’s u adjust the curve to your room conditions and taste

[hifiman]

9 hours ago, ronildoq said:

Yes if possible, use all 4 auxiliary for subwoofers. You can count on RP to do a decent job with its auto eq function

the voicings you see in the processor, are just house curves used. The action curve applies a house curve of +6db from about 120hz to 30hz, using a high shelf filter, the movie action curve has the same filters + gentle roll off from 8khz onwards , about 1-2db . So the action + movie has a high frequency roll off, something similar to Audyssey “reference curve”

so depending on how reverberant the room is, each filter will work differently 

If you have a lot of absorption treatments in your room , “action curve/ flat curve will work better” . Because the first reflection points are now being absorbed and they no longer reflect back into the room. 
 

but if you have an untreated room, and if u play action curve (flat curve no roll off) the higher frequencies will sound much louder. This is based on fletcher Munson theory where humans perceive loudness at higher frequencies to be louder and also partly because sound becomes directional as you move up higher frequencies , unlike Low frequencies where it is non directional

so if you use a lot of diffusion at the first reflection points, u want to go with (action + movie) so the high frequencies are rolled off to give you that balance from 20-20khz

 

so that’s what the voicing does, let’s u adjust the curve to your room conditions and taste

Thanks Bryan, 

I currently have no room treatments and plan to get some added (especially first reflection points and corner/ceiling bass traps) later on so action+Movie is probably best for now. 

Even though RP has already impressed me immensely especially the bass response and the integration with my S300 LCR speakers are faultless to me in stereo mode. 

I'm now looking to get a decent streamer (with dsd support) that has good synergy with the MP-60. Any good recommendations? 

 

regards,

 

Edd 

[ronildoq]

On 10/17/2020 at 7:09 PM, hifiman said:

Thanks Bryan, 

I currently have no room treatments and plan to get some added (especially first reflection points and corner/ceiling bass traps) later on so action+Movie is probably best for now. 

Even though RP has already impressed me immensely especially the bass response and the integration with my S300 LCR speakers are faultless to me in stereo mode. 

I'm now looking to get a decent streamer (with dsd support) that has good synergy with the MP-60. Any good recommendations? 

 

regards,

 

Edd 

I’m currently using Oppo 205 for all streaming and music and dsd music. I can bet you will be surprised how good the Oppo 205 is compared to the Lyngdorf for music if you have an Oppo 205. 
 

I use a switch like the one below , so for music, the signal goes directly through from Oppo 205 to the Purifi amps, and for HT then it is through the Lyngdorf , also through the purifi amp. This way I benefit with the purifi and take advantage of the 140db dynamic range from the sabres 9038pro for stereo listening 

 

lyngdorf don’t come close to the Oppo 205 on stereo 

 

it is fantastic ! You can toggle between both
 

 

[ronildoq]

For HT it is very difficult, u must have room correction, because there is just too many speakers and their reflections to control. If you don’t control, especially the Low frequencies, it is a nightmare . Unless you have very good acoustics. But no matter how good the acoustics, ROom correction is beneficial for HT as I have learnt. But for stereo, not too bad as we are dealing with only 2 speakers, it’s easier to control 2 speakers with room acoustics 

My journey and personal findings in my Hall being set up for HT and music listening

this year I’ve been spending quite some time with stereo and music 

[hifiman]

5 minutes ago, ronildoq said:

I’m currently using Oppo 205 for all streaming and music and dsd music. I can bet you will be surprised how good the Oppo 205 is compared to the Lyngdorf for music if you have an Oppo 205. 
 

I use a switch like the one below , so for music, the signal goes directly through from Oppo 205 to the Purifi amps, and for HT then it is through the Lyngdorf , also through the purifi amp. This way I benefit with the purifi and take advantage of the 140db dynamic range from the sabres 9038pro for stereo listening 

 

lyngdorf don’t come close to the Oppo 205 on stereo 

 

it is fantastic ! You can toggle between both
 

Yes I did consider looking at the Oppo 205 but unfortunately they don't sell them new anymore unless you see them for close to 10k on ebay! 

That switcher looks great, looks like a passive one too?

Which Purifi amplifier are you using? I'm thinking about waiting for the new MXA-8400 but know there are a few companies making them in mono and stereo editions, Nord, March Audio, Apollon Audio and Audiophonics. 

[ronildoq]

3 minutes ago, hifiman said:

Yes I did consider looking at the Oppo 205 but unfortunately they don't sell them new anymore unless you see them for close to 10k on ebay! 

That switcher looks great, looks like a passive one too?

Which Purifi amplifier are you using? I'm thinking about waiting for the new MXA-8400 but know there are a few companies making them in mono and stereo editions, Nord, March Audio, Apollon Audio and Audiophonics. 

I know! The price is ridiculous now on the Oppo 205. It’s the one and only equipment that appreciates over time ! It doesn’t have a depreciation value, but appreciation instead . I’m also using it for dolby vision player led processing for PJ, it looks fantastic for HDR with HD fury . What a player !
 

I’m using the Purifi 1ET400 from Apollon. They are extremely good. Almost everytime I fire up the system I go like this 

One thing that really caught my attention after the upgrade is “non fatigue”. The best system isnt really one that has all the details and extended highs and boost in bass, it is one that “ you can listen for prolonged hours”

The purifi 1ET400, Oppo 205, with the divini PTY power cord will give your exactly that . 
 

try it on the lyngdorf, the divini PTY Power cord, very very good. Retains the liveliness and energy whilst providing clean bass, resonance free down Low frequencies. A must try, u won’t regret it. Doesn’t cost a bomb. We just finished blind testing 3 weeks ago 

[Guest]

On 3/14/2019 at 6:29 PM, ronildoq said:

Further confirmed updates. Recently I swapped in to use the minidsp ddrc88a using Dirac live to EQ the subs and then use RP to calibrate the system as 1.

 

The results were far from satisfactory.

 

On the amplitude response , it was good, but time domain measurements not so. RP then just literally undo what Dirac did, it somehow reversed and adjusted for a better time response. Though the amplitude response was slightly better, but time domain adjustments weren’t as good. Having Dirac just messes up the whole thing. Immediately the transient Attack from the 18” subs were gone.

 

So again back to square one !! Connect directly to the LFE using splitters and manually adjust delay / phase on the subwoofers finding the best blend before EQ, that gave the best results

 

With the above, I’ve now completed my experiment work on the mp50 and understand better now on how to bring out the best in this processor

 

Once I’ve completed dialing in the subs, it’s demo time !

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So bro Bryan, do you still use 88A in the chain, between 4 subs and MP50 or you directly connect the 4 subs through splitters to MP50 without 88A?

 

I'm wondering how Dirac Live works, obviously DL takes care of amplitude response well, and my understanding is DL take various paths to take care of time domain as well, for example, using all pass filters which do not mess up frequency response but change phase/time domain. I'm wondering whether StormAudio able to deliver good results on both amplitude and time domain, instead of focusing on time domain only, like MP50.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by keai

[manbat]

Just came across this forum, nice. With the Lyngdorf gear, if you’re not using Voicing, you’ll be missing out on next level performance. The fine tuning you can achieve is phenomenal, and limitless in terms of preferred taste and genres. Voicing is the secret sauce, and I’m not talking about the very basic examples that come pre programmed but experimentation and using your own settings, as each room and accompanying equipment will be different. I recently listed to a Lyngdorf, Perlisten, Primare system. It’s the best home theatre system I’ve heard to date. That includes Trinov, which I listen to at three different dealers in dedicated rooms (personally I think this was heavily let down by the choice of speakers- all horn loaded) All systems sounded extraordinarily average.