10Mhz Clock discussion

[WindR]

Guys, I will like to get feedback from you about 10mhz clocks. Anyone has experience using them? there are options from mutec, sotm, teac and cybershaft. I noticed that there is no dealer selling the teac clock here hence no way to get a local unit. While cybershaft is good value for money, the clocks that they are using are recycled from industrial equipments which I understand are already 15 years old and I am afraid that they might fail anytime without availability for replacement. That leaves sotm and mutec. Anyone compared this 2 clocks?

[joeling]

This is interesting.

[malsound]

What did Absolute Sound say.

 

 

[murphys33]

It would not be effective if one is streaming via usb or connection to dac is via usb.

[joeling]

In my case the 10m reference clock did make a perceptible difference connected to the Vivaldi master clock. I have tried the Stanford research unit but preferred the Antelope unit. Seems like this Antelope unit is junk from reading through some of these discussion forums. Hmmm...

 

Research time !

[CH Lim]

Absolute Sound did bring in teac cg10m.Last check price is less than 2k but not on demo.

[pcking1624705747]

There will be some improvement but not much unless the source and DAC both uses this 10MHz as their Master clock.

 

It would not be effective if one is streaming via usb or connection to dac is via usb.

[Guest AndrewC]

Guys, I will like to get feedback from you about 10mhz clocks. Anyone has experience using them? ...

 

You don't mention what you're planning to connect this 10Mhz Clock to... what are they? (brand/model will help). Whether an external 10Mhz clock improves your system's sounds kind of depends on what is your system, how it's connected to it, and whether your system can really benefit from an external clock in the first place.

 

In some cases, the internal crystal and it's proximity to the digital to analog conversion circuit will outperform an external 10Mhz clock coming into your system via all sorts of snakey paths and crapy cables etc.

 

Your system will also determine whether or not you can actually.. (a) hear the difference with an external 10Mhz clock in place, and (b) the difference between different 10Mhz clocks products. What works for one person very likely won't work for you unless you're using the exact same system.

 

 

It would not be effective if one is streaming via usb or connection to dac is via usb.

 

Not true at all.

 

Even with USB (or Ethernet) sources, internally the bit-stream is buffered, and is fed synchronously clocked into the Digital-to-Analog conversion point within the DAC. That clocking has to be precise, and with the right DAC, can benefit from an external 10Mhz clock. It's nothing to do with USB (or Ethernet) stream coming in.

 

[malsound]

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[malsound]

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[drzero]

Absolute Sound did bring in teac cg10m.Last check price is less than 2k but not on demo.

 

now they have on demo with NT505, saw it the other day

[WindR]

You don't mention what you're planning to connect this 10Mhz Clock to... what are they? (brand/model will help). Whether an external 10Mhz clock improves your system's sounds kind of depends on what is your system, how it's connected to it, and whether your system can really benefit from an external clock in the first place.

 

In some cases, the internal crystal and it's proximity to the digital to analog conversion circuit will outperform an external 10Mhz clock coming into your system via all sorts of snakey paths and crapy cables etc.

 

Your system will also determine whether or not you can actually.. (a) hear the difference with an external 10Mhz clock in place, and (b) the difference between different 10Mhz clocks products.

 

I am using sotm 200 ultra into mutec 3+usb into avantgarde zero. The avantgarde has no clock inputs but the mutec and the sms 200 ultras has. Short of having a home demo which the local dealers does not offer such service,  would a 10mhz help in my situation?

[malsound]

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[Guest AndrewC]

I am using sotm 200 ultra into mutec 3+usb into avantgarde zero. The avantgarde has no clock inputs but the mutec and the sms 200 ultras has. Short of having a home demo which the local dealers does not offer such service,  would a 10mhz help in my situation?

 

Ahhh…. well, the context of my earlier reply was in traditional use-cases where a 10Mhz clock is used for Transports and/or DACs (like in Joeling’s post).

 

With respect to USB Re-clockers like the Mutec though, my personal opinion is that they only serve to clean-up potential RF and stabilise Power, on USB interfaces, period. They do absolutely nothing to change the actual bit-stream flowing through - in fact, it’s been proven objectively that USB re-clockers do not change the bit-stream at all. In which case, adding a 10Mhz clock to them will serve no purpose whatsoever I’m afraid.

 

IMHO, spend your money elsewhere  :)

[WindR]

Thanks Andrew, macro trust and all for your feedback. Looks like I can save myself some money. And yes, absolute sound does carry teac clock which price wise looks quite favourable compared to the others.

[murphys33]

 

 

Even with USB (or Ethernet) sources, internally the bit-stream is buffered, and is fed synchronously clocked into the Digital-to-Analog conversion point within the DAC. That clocking has to be precise, and with the right DAC, can benefit from an external 10Mhz clock. It's nothing to do with USB (or Ethernet) stream coming in.

 

 

I use an Aurender W20 and a Lampi Golden Gate dac. Was told by the manufacturers that adding an external clock may not benefit if the connection is via asynchronized USB as the DAC handles the clocking. Then I was considering a Mutec 10mhz clock. Aurender also told me that the W20 has the same OCXO clock built in and may not result in a better sound even if SPDIF connection was used.

[Guest AndrewC]

I use an Aurender W20 and a Lampi Golden Gate dac. ...

 

If you meant Aurender, then they’re absolutely correct; makes no sense to have an external 10Mhz clock connected to it if you’re using the Aurender’s USB output spitting out an asynchronous bit stream. 

 

As for Aurender’s internal OCXO and S/PDIF output though, that’s a totally different discussion. If it and your DAC are not synchronised to the same external clock source, though it’ll work fine as your DAC can recover and latch onto the clock from the S/PDIF PCM bit stream itself, BUT good luck with the sound quality, you won’t be getting the best possible. Seems your Lampi doesn’t support an external clock source though? So you’re at the mercy of its S/PDIF clock recovery and internal clocking chip/circuit.

 

As mentioned to WindR, an external 10Mhz clock makes zero technical sense for a Re-clocker or USB streamer, and none of those vendors have ever showed any proof of benefit (no one can show those re-clockers correcting bit errors, which should be trivial, if these things do what they claim to)... but that hasn’t stopped some people from claiming they can “hear” a difference of course ;D.